The Evolution Deceit
Excerpt from Mr. Adnan Oktar's Live Conversation on A9 TV dated January 17th, 2012
Ms. DAMLA: Dr. Ely Karmon, I can tell you about him, insha'Allah.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, I am listening to you.
Ms. DAMLA: He has served as adviser to the Israeli Ministry of Defense. He is a renowned expert on international terrorism, and Middle East security and strategy. He teaches about terrorism and contemporary guerrilla movements at various institutions of higher education, including the IDF Military College. He is a senior research scientist at the Institute for Counter-Terrorism at the Interdisciplinary Center (IDC) in Herzliya, Israel, and a member of many prominent think-tanks. I can list them if you like.
ADNAN OKTAR: Go ahead.
DAMLA HANIM: U.S. Army War College, The Atlantic Forum of Israel, the United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute (UNICRI), The Washington Institute for Near East Policy, the Herzliya Institute for Policy and Strategy and various NATO workshops on terrorism. He has written various books and many articles and held conferences on his areas of expertise.
ADNAN OKTAR: Fine. Greetings, Dr. Ely Karmon, how are you?
ELY KARMON: Thank you, and you?
ADNAN OKTAR: Very well thank you.
ELY KARMON: Good evening, Mr. Oktar.
ADNAN OKTAR: Good evening, and welcome.
ELY KARMON: I'd like to thank you for inviting me to your show.
ADNAN OKTAR: Thank you for taking part.
ELY KARMON: I'm a great admirer of your country and the Turkish people for many years. I've visited various times Turkey so I'm glad to appear on Turkish TV, especially with a personality like you.
ADNAN OKTAR: Thank you. We like Israel and the Israelis very much. We love the children of the Prophet Moses (pbuh) and the Prophet Solomon (pbuh). Allah has entrusted you to us. We will all have a happy, brotherly union. We will live happily together. We will live through the Golden Age. We will see the fine days of the way of the Messiah, the way of the Mahdi, all together, insha'Allah. In peace and happiness.
ELY KARMON: It's a wish, I think, for all the people. Our two peoples, and people around the world.
ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. Go ahead. I can take your questions.
ELY KARMON: Actually, I'm not so accustomed to ask [questions to] a personality on TV, but as you know probably I'm an expert or a researcher not so much on issues of religion but more on issues of politics, international relations, strategy and terrorism. So these are the subjects that are of interest, and Turkey has a very special role today in the region, in the Muslim world at large, and practically as a world-influential country.
ADNAN OKTAR: I would be delighted if you would ask a question.
ELY KARMON: Especially in the Israeli sensitive period in the Middle East.
ADNAN OKTAR: Our being united, our becoming brothers and our living happily is up to us. It is a very easy matter. It lies in speaking together often, and in sensible people coming together. But religious believers must become involved in order to build the brotherhood that Allah describes in His Book, in the Torah and in the Qur'an. I mean, people have tried to be brothers and to live together in peace without religion, under materialist and Darwinist thinking. But all that has brought for a hundred years is bloodshed, pain and suffering. It has brought division and hatred. And that has begun increasing even more lately. It brought the economic crisis along with it. It eradicated art and science. It led people to be unhappy. But Allah has shown us that religion will make people happy in the enlightened sense, in the true sense. That is why Jews, Christians and Muslims must coalesce together around the Messiah, the Mahdi, and ask Allah to live happily in brotherhood, peace and democracy.
ELY KARMON: I'm very respecting of religions, of all religions, not only our Jewish religion but other religions, so I am an investigator of the world as it is today, I'm amazed at how much radicalization there is in religious circles. So my question is; The Prime Minister of Gaza, Hamas government Ismail Haniyeh, he very recently visited Turkey, and today he said on TV that he visited some places in Istanbul where he was told how the Muslims occupied Constantinople, he first said Constantinople, and he said, "This is a good lesson for us, Hamas, how to fight and liberate Jerusalem and organize an army, not only a Palestinian army, but a Muslim army, in order to liberate by force Jerusalem." So if this is the lesson, or what he learned in Turkey, it's very disturbing, because he was, he is a very friendly leader, and he is different and the real effect seems to be negative more than a positive one.
ADNAN OKTAR: If Darwinists and materials, in other words people who attach no importance to religion, also disregard these subjects then radicals will make this a hell on earth. But when people follow the King Messiah described in the Torah, Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) as described in the hadiths of our Prophet (saas), then radicalism and radical thinking will vanish from the world. It would vanish all at once. The Mahdi is the only way of stopping radicalism. The King Messiah (pbuh), in other words. Otherwise, radical thinking will enfold the world increasingly day by day.. I mean it would enfold the world both in terms of Christianity, in terms of Islam and in terms of Judaism. And it will swamp the world in blood. The world will be ruined. The end of the world would come, but the Mahdi will calm all these elements down and restore peace, love, brotherhood, goodness and beauty to the mankind. He will restore this blessing bestowed by Allah. He will be instrumental for that. But otherwise you cannot oppose radical thinking with tanks and rifles and shells. That would lead to bloody, painful times. But once people follow the Mahdi, the world will calm down instantly and become loving and moderate. That is why it is so important to meticulously draw attention to this matter. I mean it is impossible to halt radical thinking, terror, war and suffering with an atheistic mindset.
ELY KARMON: I've looked to some of your books, some of your beliefs, and I was very amazed, I would say, that you have such a strong voice against radicalization and for fraternity. You also invited several Israeli personalities. I would ask you, as you know much better than me Turkey, what should be done inside Turkey where we know that more and more anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish feelings are appealing, and this visit of the leaders of Hamas is one sign, because they were received like heroes, like brothers, and they received a lesson that was negative. So what should to be done, in your opinion, in order to bring this peaceful message and friendship message to a larger part of the Turkish population?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course these meetings have a positive impact. For instance, I am expecting members of the Israeli Parliament in the days ahead, to come as our guests. They will have various meetings here. These things are of course useful in establishing a more moderate climate. But the Torah has shown the solution. If a Jew attaches no importance to the Torah then he is not a [real] Jew anyway. He would then be something totally different. And according to the Torah, Allah says that He will destroy people if they reject this spirit of peace, this spirit of love, the spirit of the King Messiah in the Torah. Therefore, there will be no more problems in Turkey. No more problems in Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else once people accept the King Messiah, once they become aware of the Mahdi. But otherwise, everyone can see the world revolves around pain and afflictions; there are loud preparations for war going on in the world. And there is tension everywhere. But Allah reveals in the Torah that this will immediately come to an end with the King Messiah, the Mahdi. And our Prophet (saas) describes it in detail in the hadiths. It would be very wrong to ignore this, it would be quite foolish. There is but one rational path, and we must solve this matter by approaching it rationally and obeying Allah's commandment on the subject.
ELY KARMON: I would like to ask you one more question which is also quite sensitive, not related to relations between Israel and Turkey, between our people and your people. Because I am looking around the world on the strategic level in the last ten or fifteen years, I have researched- or investigated if you want- quite a lot about what happens in Pakistan, because Pakistan is a country which has a huge influence on what happens in the Middle East, Central Asia, Southeast Asia, and we see that war is waged there in Pakistan on the border with Afghanistan, in Afghanistan is worse and worse, I don't see a real solution with the efforts of the Americans or their coalition; but what is more disturbing is that in Pakistan itself, for the last fifteen or twenty years, is a very violent and bloody fight between the Muslims, I mean between Sunnis and Shiites on the one hand, between various Sunni fractions such as the Deobandis and Barelvis and even between Pakistanis of Indian origin of Mujaddidis and those living in the Karachi area. So this is not a conflict of ideas, but it is a conflict of sectarianism and a lot of blood, and bloodshed is flowing there, so I think that, my impression is, that Muslim leaders, especially religious Muslim leaders, do not make sufficient effort to try to influence the people there, because most of this kind of conflicts are coming from religious leaders which are- I think don't k now how or why they're- so radicalized. So I think that only on the religious level, if religious leaders in the Muslim world will raise their voice and try to work and put more psychological pressure on the leaders in Pakistan, and I speak about the religious leaders, in order to try to refute this kind of conflicts which are influencing a lot of countries.
ADNAN OKTAR: Most of the time, each and every single one of the religious leaders espouse different ideas, different worlds and different views. Separate heads and minds generally tend to repel one another. I mean people are successful when they coalesce around a single mind. Yet, thirty scholars do not make one Mahdi. That is why those who regard what it says in the Torah as nonsense, as fairy tales, are making such a great mistake. The time of the King Messiah, awaited for the last 3,000 years, whom the Jews have prayed for day and night, has come. Look at the Torah and you will see the signs. Look at other Judaic commentaries. You will see that especially the year 2012 is the last significant date, that it is the time of the Messiah. These things are not nonsense or fairy tales. People will obey the Mahdi and the Messiah, whether they want to or not. And so this fragmentation in the Islamic world, and the acts of bloodshed you list will end with the coming of the Messiah, that is the Mahdi. Otherwise the bloodshed will continue simply by getting worse exponentially. State oppression upon Jews, upon devout Jews, will continue to grow. And they will increasingly oppose the state. Events and bloodshed will continue among the Shiites. There will be conflicts between Shiites and Sunnis. Christians will become involved. The only solution is to follow the King Messiah, the Mahdi, awaited for the last 3,000 years. If people regard this as a myth, that means the end of the world has come. But through His compassion, through His mercy, Allah will produce His Mahdi, His Messiah. You will see this. The people of Israel will see this. We will see this; we will all see this. All that is needed is for wise men, for rational people, good people, to talk to one another and analyze this matter in a sincere manner.
ELY KARMON: Thank you very much.
ADNAN OKTAR: I thank you as well. We hope to see you in Turkey.
ELY KARMON: Thank you very much; I'd like to. Thank you for this opportunity.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. Good evening. Salam.
ELY KARMON: When will you visit Israel?
ADNAN OKTAR: I want to very much. I have received a huge, hand-written Torah. My Jewish friends brought it. I am experiencing the joy of that. It is a most wonderful thing. The cover is lovely, too. That was a dream of mine. It is in my room. I am saying that to express my joy.
But I would like to come to Israel as early as possible, insha'Allah, and eat and talk with you all as friends. That will be very soon, insha'Allah. If we strive a little longer we will soon see great days together, insha'Allah.
We love you all.
ELY KARMON: I think that your visit could really influence the public opinion, to see a religious leader which has such a friendly attitude to our people, so I hope to see you here as soon as possible.
ADNAN OKTAR: Maybe, insha'Allah. I am thinking about it in the near future.
ELY KARMON: Insha'Allah.
ADNAN OKTAR: Insha'Allah, salam.
ELY KARMON: Salamun alaikum.
ADNAN OKTAR: Alaikum as-salam