PRESENTER: Welcome to our weekly program, Bel Ahdan, the show that brings the other Islamic view. Our show brings Islamic ideas and talks about stories from Muslims all over the world; we are here delighted to be a guest of the Turkish intellectual Adnan Oktar. A lot of you know this person, who is now a world renowned intellectual and writes a lot about current issues and we're going to talk about the man, his organizations and his message and some of the issues he is raising recently. Welcome to our show, Mr. Adnan.
ADNAN OKTAR: And welcome to you, I am delighted to see you again.
PRESENTER: Thank you so much. It is good to see you again; last year I was here and it was El-Aid, El Edha, the feast of the sacrifice. Last year, I talked to you on the same night before the Aid.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, true, masha'Allah.
PRESENTER: This evening is Christmas Eve. Tomorrow is the biggest Christian holiday, celebrating the birth of Christ. So it's a coincidence that I only come here when there is a major religious celebration.
ADNAN OKTAR: I love the Prophet Jesus (as) very dearly. I am keenly awaiting his return. Of course the day of his birth is a very important event, the cause of great joy for us. But insha'Allah Allah will permit us to see him with the eyes of this world.
PRESENTER: Wonderful. Speaking of the two religions, two holidays, what do you think is the biggest challenge that we are facing nowadays. Is it a clash of culture, a clash of religions, a clash of you know, poor and rich? What are the biggest challenges that are facing humanity now?
ADNAN OKTAR: The most important issue is the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as) and the return of the Prophet Jesus (as). The return of the Prophet Jesus (as) is close at hand, with just 10 or 15 years remaining, and that is extraordinary, as 15 years go by in the blink of an eye. Hazrat Mahdi (as) has already appeared. Mankind is therefore entering an age of peace, love, brotherhood, friendship, joy and happiness. This is the greatest event in the history of the world, there has never been such a great happening before.
PRESENTER: Sometimes you are general in your ideas, and sometimes you are very specific, like you say 10- 15 years. What are those numbers, what does it mean to you and how do you come up with those numbers?
ADNAN OKTAR: One can easily come by this information from the hadith, from the hadith of our Prophet (saas), from Sunni texts and from Shiite texts.
PRESENTER: Here are some issues that the West, Western audiences, Western media, when we talk to them, we use our sources, Islamic sources which they may not be familiar or even believe in, so how do we talk to people who don't even believe in those sources?
ADNAN OKTAR: The sources I cite on my web site are reliable and they can access them very easily from there. But the important thing is that the hadith I refer to have all come true. A 1000-year book of hadith has come true word for word, and that cannot be denied. That is how we see the accuracy of these texts. Because they exist in libraries, in giant libraries, in the Suleymaniye library or others. They exist in the libraries of Baghdad, as original texts. There is therefore no problem with references. There is nothing to doubt about the references.
PRESENTER: When I talk to the American media, and I'm telling them I'm going to visit Mr. Oktar, some of the issues they want to know about are they usually want to know your story. What you say, it is not well told in the American media, I don't know about Europe, but in the American media. They usually take it very lightly, with oversimplifications, and I feel that what you're bringing to the table, as the role of Islam in modern life, is not clear to them. And I want to give you the chance to tell me, what is Islam now, in the 21st century, bringing to the table, to deal with modern issues like terrorism, poverty, women issues, child abuse, all these modern issues the West is dealing with, and that capitalism failed to deal with these issues? Can Islam help in dealing with these modern issues, and how?
ADNAN OKTAR: Hazrat Mahdi (as) and the Prophet Jesus (as) will bring Islam with them. Islam exists right now, but is not being properly applied. Hazrat Mahdi (as) will enable it to be applied. The Messiah (as) will enable it to be applied. Therefore, love will be applied one hundred percent, and affection, compassion, friendship, cleanliness, goodness and forgiveness will be applied one hundred percent, and this is very important. It is not enough for there to be no anarchy on Earth, and the lack of love is anarchy. The absence of friendship is anarchy. These are intense forms of anarchy. Hazrat Mahdi (as) will eliminate that anarchy and the Messiah (as) will eliminate that anarchy.
PRESENTER: It's very interesting as a Muslim scholar, intellectual, you talk a lot about love in Islam or Islamic love. A lot of the West, they do not really very much associate love with Islam. Love is Jesus, and it's in more Christianity. Islam put a lot of emphasis also on justice and violence is really now the identity of Islam and Muslims through the media. So tell us a little bit, where is Islamic love? What are you thinking about, what do you mean by love? I mean is this ideology or feeling? Talk to us a little bit about this love in Islamic thinking.
ADNAN OKTAR: Love manifests the appearance of Allah in people, animals and plants. Allah manifests it by the name of Jamal there. We feel an intensely positive feeling toward that person in our hearts, an excitement, and we make everything positive, meaning that we become helpful, protective of people, patient and forgiving, and love lies at the heart of all these things. We pay attention to cleanliness and put an end to conflict, and these are all manifestations of love.
PRESENTER: Are humans… The nature is love or violence. Nature, is this something natural, the potential for violence and to do what is bad? But is there the same potential for love and do good? So how do we make sure that the nature of violence is not really the dominant one and that the nature and the tendency to love is really taken over, as you say it's 100% love and mercy?
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course people have their negative sides, but it is the positive side that counts. In other words, people delight in love, affection, compassion, cleanliness and goodness, and they have a desire for Paradise in their hearts, and that only comes about by living by Islam. At the moment, Darwinism stands opposed to goodness and beauty in the world, Darwinist and materialist philosophy. Following the appearance of Darwinism and materialism, 350 million people were slaughtered; World Wars I and II broke out, fascism and communism appeared, love was removed from people's hearts, the spirit of friendship and brotherhood was taken away and people became selfish and egotistical. Oppression pervaded everywhere. Hazrat Mahdi (as) will do away with that heretical idea. The Messiah (as) will arrive to a climate that has been made easier and better, and we can expect Doomsday to happen around 2120, insha'Allah. People will taste that love and beauty for the last time and they will experience this feeling of brotherhood in its perfect form for the very first time. It is the first time it will be so comprehensive, because almost all of 7 billion people will believe in Hazrat Mahdi (as). There will be nobody who does not believe in the time of the Messiah (as). They will all be Muslims. People were unable to feel my works much at the beginning. But my global demolition of Darwinism has led to enormous changes in the world. In Turkey for instance, progress toward the Turkish-Islamic Union has accelerated unbelievably. The idea of Islamic Union has raised its head across the world. Christians have become stronger and braver because we have demolished Darwinism. The enthusiasm and fervor of Jews has increased. They have become more proactive and devoted to their faith. It was the exact other way round before, when Darwinism prevailed. It had the strength to pull down the Ottoman Empire. But Darwinism is now history and the road ahead for believers is clear. Believers can now live at ease. But I have been instrumental in this, by Allah's choosing, by Allah's creation.
PRESENTER: It's interesting that you talk about the end of Darwinism when we celebrated the 200 years since the birth of the founder of Darwinism. When you talk about Darwinism is responsible for all the evil and violence, of course you're talking about, biological Darwinism or Social Darwinism? And what about the violence committed of those who believe in creationism, like the crusaders, Islamic explorers. There is also violence committed by let's call them non-Darwinist religious adherents and religious followers of Allah. There's a lot of violence committed in the name of God, Allah or Jesus whatever the religious name is. So Darwinism has no monopoly on violence. So it could, what assure us that %100 belief in Jesus, and what's gonna happen in the next, I think you said, the 15 years? Can you assure us there's not going to be any violence any more?
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, violence will come to a complete end and the whole world will be Muslim. We will all see this together. You are young, you will see it. It is in the Christian holy book. We accept the true Injil, the Christian holy book. The Injil is a righteous book in its original form, though it was corrupted later. But it was not changed completely, only in part. The Injil is against killing and violence. What the crusaders did is an evil consequence of their being directed by the masons. The Crusades were a slaughter organized by the Knights Templars, so we cannot blame the Christians for it and there is no question, may Allah forbid, of holding any passage in the Injil responsible. One cannot think that a Christian made an error there. A devout Christian. What happened was the Knights Templar deceived ignorant people. Those who commit Islamic terror are Darwinists, materialists, socialists and communists. It merely says they are Muslims on their ID documents. Their real beliefs are communist and terrorist ones. They are people who espouse the ideas of Ho Chi Minh and Che. We cannot call them Muslims, because Muslims are the affectionate and compassionate people described in the Qur'an, who even forgive murder.
PRESENTER: No matter how wonderful the world, the book of God, the Bible or the Qur'an, or no matter how wonderful or magnificent the text is, at the end of the day it will depend on the interpretation of the text. So those who use the text of the Qur'an to commit violence like 9/11, terrorism, those people also use verses of the Qur'an and hadith to justify their violence. So is it really the message that is the problem, or the people who are the problem? Because we still have to interpret what God has given us and much depends on who we are and what state we are in and what we are trying to do. So I just want to understand the relationship between the text of the Qur'an and the people, the Muslim people who are going to act upon that interpretation. And that interpretation we have no control over. I mean we have a billion and a half Muslims and every section in the world, they have an interpretation of this. We have, Pakistani, Kaadi, Talabani, Saudi Islam and Algerian Islam. So everybody is using Islam and the text to justify their actions.
ADNAN OKTAR: Interpretation is very important, of course. Hazrat Mahdi (as) will provide the most perfect interpretation and will eliminate all the sects. That is both Sunni and Shiite belief. Even the Iranian Constitution is only valid until the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as). In other words, what Hazrat Mahdi (as) says now applies. In Sunni belief, too, all the schools and sects will disappear, and all interpretation will follow what Hazrat Mahdi (as) says, and everyone knows that. And they will act according to what he says. Even the Prophet Jesus (as) will do what Hazrat Mahdi (as) says. He will accept him as his imam. Therefore, Hazrat Mahdi (as) is a person of love, affection, compassion and friendship in this century. He will bring joy and happiness to mankind through true love and a perfect interpretation of the Qur'an. Of course anarchy cannot come to an end and there can be no peace in the absence of Hazrat Mahdi (as). Let me say that. That is how it appears according to the hadith.
PRESENTER: Every religion will have their own Mahdi, and I don't know if they are talking about the same thing. But let me go to do my sightseeing yesterday. I was fortuned to go on a visit some of the museums here, one was the Harem, in that Sultan's Museum, and I was amazed at the artifacts that they have there. Some of which I didn't even know of, I never knew about this, but they actually have some evidence like some hair of the Prophet's (saas) beard, a remnant of the arm, which talking about thousands of year. I am looking at this magnificent civilization. And what Islam at the time that actually was powerful enough to bring this into being, you know, 1500 years of confidence and civilization and all that. And the way they are building the mosques and the way they build their empires, they seem very confident and it seems like people thought they were going to stay forever. And now, when you look at the Islamic and Muslim world, there is a totally different picture. You know Islam produced everything around the world, ideas, science or economics or anything that has been the ideal for the last 500 years. So, take us from the time when Islam was very powerful and confident, and building all these civilizations, and now they are bunch of consumers, receiving ideas from the West, and just standing on the sidelines and watching what the others are doing.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, when the Qur'an was sent down the Mahdi was the Prophet Muhammed (saas). That is, there was a Mahdi and he caused people to live by the Qur'an in practice and ensured that they lived right. He gave them excitement and fervor in its true sense. The Mahdi (as) of the End Times will also interpret the Qur'an, and like our Prophet (saas) he will ensure that people live right and will cause them to feel that love, passion and fervor. Therefore, the fact that Hazrat Mahdi (as) is described in various faith is a sign that the system of the Mahdi is true. The Messiah (as) awaited in the Torah is Hazrat Mahdi (as). The Mahdi awaited by Sunni and Shiite is the same. The time has come. And I believe that Hazrat Mahdi (as) is already here.
PRESENTER: What was the biggest downfall for Muslims or Islam? What was the start of the decline of the civilization and the absence of the effect of the Mahdi, the real Mahdi who is the prophet. When was that, when did it take place and what was the really broad declining of the Islamic civilization? When and who and what?
ADNAN OKTAR: There is something known as hidden knowledge, knowledge known to Allah. A wisdom that people do not know. Accordingly, before the coming of our Prophet (saas), society had to be defective. And Allah broke society and the Prophet Muhammed (saas) came and all was well for a time. Then Allah again weakened society for the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as). And Hazrat Mahdi (as) will now come, though when he does people will attach little importance to him and he will have very few followers. Some will even accuse Hazrat Mahdi (as) of irreligion. They will claim Hazrat Mahdi (as) is on the wrong path, a bad person. Therefore, he will have only a group of a few young people around him. Just like the Companions of the Cave as described in the Qur'an. They will leave their families and come to Hazrat Mahdi (as). They will number just 313 people. But with them Hazrat Mahdi (as) will cause Islam to rule the world. Christians will also benefit from the presence of Hazrat Mahdi (as). Christianity will grow stronger. The Jews will also benefit. Hazrat Mahdi (as) will be instrumental in the growth of all 3 faiths. He will make Christianity and Judaism closer to Islam. He will rule Christians with the original Injil and Jews with original of the Torah, as we are told in the hadith. That time has now come. People are unaware, as they were unaware of the Prophet Joesph (as), but mankind can now see Hazrat Mahdi (as). But they are unaware of him. They see Hazrat Mahdi (as) but they do not see him for who he is. As with the Prophet Yusuf (as), as the hadith tell us.
PRESENTER: You mentioned that people becoming more religious is the solution. But a lot of people think that is the problem, becoming totally religious; Israel, Afghanistan, even in America, when Bush came with his crusaders, and becoming, running a face value for foreign policy and that was so dangerous that we mixed religion with politics and economics. So a lot of people think being too religious is the problem, not the solution as you mentioned.
ADNAN OKTAR: Everywhere and everything will be dangerous in the time before Hazrat Mahdi (as). Many things will be dangerous. Few things will not be dangerous. Therefore, administrations will also be dangerous or mistaken, and many will be corrupt, as it says in the hadith. In any case, if that time were perfect there would be no need for Hazrat Mahdi (as). There needs to be imperfection and a misinterpretation by religious believers in order for a need for Hazrat Mahdi (as) to arise. The Mahdi (as) will correctly interpret those hadith that misinterpret the Qur'an, and by correctly interpreting the Qur'an he will bring mankind happiness and felicity. That is Hazrat Mahdi's (as) feature. But an irreligious society is a terrifying one. Disaster, collapses and scourges follow on one another's heels.
PRESENTER: I appreciate it, thank you so much.